ARMS Institute:Discussion/Archive 1

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This should probably be in Quick Links
Thanks so much for making this. Do you have any way of putting this in the Quick Links sidebar? It would be useful to have easy access. Thanks. --XenonNSMB (talk)
 * Done! Gomtuu (talk) 22:26, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Main Page Redesign
I liked the idea of Nyargleblargle's redesign but thought it could use some tweaking, so I worked on my own copy. Any other feedback before we put it in place? Gomtuu (talk) 22:59, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I think it would be nice if we separated the Quick Links into categories, so we have a fighters box, stages box, etc. I can help with the redesign later if you want. XenonNSMB (talk) 23:42, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Okay, here's a copy I made. It ain't perfect or complete yet because I'm on a phone but you get the idea. Lemme know what to fix or change. XenonNSMB (talk) 00:32, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Although putting images of fighters and stages on the main page adds visual interest, I'm not sure about the usefulness of including quick links to only three of each. I updated my copy to include all the fighters, stages, and ARMS (but with no images). What do you think? Gomtuu (talk) 02:48, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Having full lists on the main page makes navigation faster, but it could confuse new users. I think the main page should be very image heavy, to entice people to go read articles. A good example is Wikipedia's homepage - it includes small snippets of articles with photos. Having the main page just be a big blob of text is boring. But I do see your point about having less use if the main page only includes a couple article links. I suggest we randomize the stages and characters shown each time to keep things interesting, and link to a "Portal" page with the full lists of characters and stages.--XenonNSMB (talk) 03:03, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

That's a good point, I guess. Maybe we could have one featured fighter, one featured stage, and one featured ARM? That way, the picture for each could be a bit bigger. I don't know how to do randomized content, though. Do you need an extension for that? My only other comment would be that I think the blue background color you've chosen is too dark for the text, so either the background should be lighter or the text should be white. Gomtuu (talk) 03:45, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * We could try that. I changed it to include a full list of all the fighters and stages, but only use images for the first 3. We could just implement that, and I'll look and see if there's any way to randomize which images are used, to keep things fresh. Also I'll go change the blue background to be a bit lighter. Thanks for the feedback. I'll look into randomizing it, but for now I suggest we just put this into the main page. --XenonNSMB (talk) 03:49, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, I found this MediaWiki extension that chooses a random option from a list and shows it. What we could do is make 3 versions of the stages and characters boxes, make them templates, then use this extension to pick a random one. --XenonNSMB (talk) 13:57, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Just seeing this now. I don't particularly like the idea of having individual boxes for stages and characters, it feels a little more in-depth than what a Main Page should be IMO. I'd be fine with having one or two featured articles, somewhat like Gomtuu's suggestion. Nyargleblargle (talk) 16:45, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I was looking at Inkipedia and thought their image links for Characters, Gear, Modes, etc. worked pretty well. How about something like this? We could still randomize the buttons later, if we want. Gomtuu (talk) 17:36, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd be cool with that. Nyargleblargle (talk) 17:45, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * That looks great. Only complaint is that the images don't fit evenly on screen, going off the page slightly. It would be cool if we included a "featured" box with a random fighter or stage. I might try making a mockup of that. But for now I say we implement the new page. --XenonNSMB (talk) 20:09, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, the new layout is in place! I made the images shrink on narrower screens, too. (You might have to refresh for that to work.) Thanks for all your help and feedback, both of you! Gomtuu (talk) 20:46, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hooray! We did it! By the way, I'm gonna move the Welcome/News section to a separate template page to make it easier to update the news headlines. --XenonNSMB (talk) 20:49, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Featured Articles proposal
I've made a simple mockup of the featured articles box. There are currently 3 featured articles that can be displayed. Over on my test wiki, I have a copy of our homepage that uses the Randomizer extension to randomly display one of the 3 featured boxes. What do you think? --XenonNSMB (talk) 22:53, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I added a Featured Page box to the home page. Thanks for researching the RandomSelection extension and mocking this up! Gomtuu (talk) 23:37, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Japanese Names
Should we have a category and notice box template for pages with unofficial English names that we've translated from Japanese? I think the category would include just about all of the stages, plus GelGel. Thoughts?
 * I don't think we need a category, but we might want to make a standardized note within the intro, e.g. GelGel (Japanese name). Nyargleblargle (talk) 01:24, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

News page
I noticed that the Template:News page contains the whole first table that used to be on the main page, with the ARMS Institute introduction in addition to the news itself. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me because the intro is unrelated to the news. Also, I thought it would be nice to have a real, non-template News page (not created yet) with an archive on it, and to just include that inside the News box on the main page (using an "onlyinclude" tag to limit what's included). I created a News page in my sandbox, then I modified the main page in my sandbox so it contains the ARMS Institute introduction and includes the news items from the News page. Any objections before I roll this out? Gomtuu (talk) 22:14, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm 100% in favor of this. I'm not sure why the intro was included in the template in the first place. Nyargleblargle (talk) 01:24, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, done! Gomtuu (talk) 22:04, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Moved to a New Host, User Accounts Didn't Transfer
I've moved ARMS Institute to a new web host that will allow me more control and flexibility than the old host. I was able to transfer almost everything, but unfortunately the old host wouldn't give me the user account information so I could transfer it over. If you had an account before and you want to keep using it, you'll need to create it again. Sorry for the inconvenience! (All the User: pages should still exist, though.)

Happy editing, and please let me know if anything weird happens or if you run into any speed issues on the new host! Gomtuu (talk) 03:07, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Contributions didn't transfer either, but that's more of a short-term problem. Nyargleblargle (talk) 09:44, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Oops! Sorry about that. I was able to restore the contributions of the users who've re-created their accounts so far. Some have the wrong timestamp now, but I might still be able to fix that later. Gomtuu (talk) 11:45, 17 May 2017 (EDT)

Skins missing
Sorry if this is a dumb complaint, but the MonoBook skin is missing on this new host. Any way to get it back? I used it when we were still on Miraheze. --XenonNSMB (talk) 18:43, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Okay, the MonoBook skin should be available now. Gomtuu (talk) 20:01, 17 May 2017 (EDT)

Oh, also we should probably get the Pulse notifications back. --XenonNSMB (talk) 18:50, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I just tried to install the Echo extension and got an error, so I'll have to try again later. Gomtuu (talk) 20:01, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I installed Echo extension! I think it's working now. Gomtuu (talk) 22:51, 18 May 2017 (EDT)

Uploading over pre-move images also seems to be broken. Nyargleblargle (talk) 20:36, 17 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Sorry! Those files had different ownership and permissions because of the import process. Go ahead and try again. Gomtuu (talk) 20:54, 17 May 2017 (EDT)

New content on Japanese website.
Heads up, editors: The new fighters and ARMS have been added to the Japanese website.

Discord?
I think creating a Discord would be a good way to discuss changes and ask questions. Anyone else agree? --PleasePleasePepper (talk) 10:17, 17 May 2017 (EST)
 * MediaWiki has Talk pages (and we have this discussion page) for that purpose, and I tend to think it's a good idea to use them so the reasoning behind our decisions is there for everybody to see. However, I'm open to using Discord if other editors are in favor of it or if you can sell me on its benefits. I've never used Discord myself, so I'm only somewhat familiar with it. Gomtuu (talk) 13:23, 18 May 2017 (EDT)

Gomtuu's To-Do List
I created a personal to-do list so I can more easily keep track of the things I need to do. Please let me know if I forgot to include something that you've asked for! Gomtuu (talk) 13:34, 18 May 2017 (EDT)

What happened to the mobile site?
I noticed shortly after the cool yellow text was added to the front page that the mobile site has gone back to default formatting, and it looks pretty bad. Any idea why this happened?




 * Oh, I guess I should've checked that. When I changed the home page, I moved a bunch of the CSS from the page itself (inline style attributes) to MediaWiki:Common.css. I didn't realize that CSS file isn't loaded on the mobile version of the site. It should look better now! (You might need to clear your cache.) Gomtuu (talk) 19:32, 21 May 2017 (EDT)

InfoboxFighter Mockup
I've been thinking about making the InfoboxFighter template a bit more visually interesting. Here's a mockup of what I have in mind.



Any objections? Gomtuu (talk) 01:03, 22 May 2017 (EDT)


 * Looks fine to me. Is the background a separate element or part of the image? I'd prefer the former, as it allows for more versatility with fighter artwork. Nyargleblargle (talk) 08:36, 22 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Yep, the background would be separate. Gomtuu (talk) 10:23, 22 May 2017 (EDT)
 * Okay, I think the mockups on my User:Gomtuu/Sandbox page are ready for review and criticism. Gomtuu (talk) 21:48, 10 June 2017 (EDT)

Navbox Mockup
I'm working on adjusting the design of the navboxes to fit the game's color scheme and fit in with the new headers. Would something like this be good? Nyargleblargle (talk) 13:37, 22 May 2017 (EDT)

Looks great! If we could make all the tables look like that, I think would look pretty good too. PleasePleasePepper (talk) 11:31, 23 May 2017 (EDT)


 * Yeah, this looks pretty good. Do you want me to implement the CSS in MediaWiki:Common.css to make the template's markup more readable? Gomtuu (talk) 18:51, 23 May 2017 (EDT)

Important Developments
Hello, contributors! I was recently approached by some members of the Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance. We talked mostly via direct messages on Discord. They asked if I was interested in having ARMS Institute join NIWA, and a few other issues were raised as well.

Joining NIWA seems like a good idea to me, because it would probably bring in more traffic and contributors. But first of all, I want to ask if anyone here objects to the idea.

Next, the topic of the wiki's domain name came up. Prod (who runs some other Nintendo wikis) actually owns armswiki.org and has even set up an ARMS wiki there, although it's not very active compared to ARMS Institute. The possibility of moving ARMS Institute to that domain name was raised. The NIWA people don't want to have two ARMS wikis competing, and I got the impression that they were willing to just take down the existing wiki at armswiki.org, although I don't know if they've made an official decision yet.

After that, someone expressed a concern about the name "ARMS Institute". I think this was mostly because there's a middle school with a name that abbreviates to ARMS, which I don't think is a big deal. But even if that's not a problem, it got me thinking: Wikis are about openness and collaboration, but I chose the arms.institute domain name and the name "ARMS Institute" on my own, so they weren't subject to the same kind of collaboration as the wiki's actual content.

With that in mind, I thought I should ask: What does everybody think about the current domain name and site name? Are they okay, or do you hate them? Are they fun, or just dumb? Is arms.institute bad from a usability standpoint because a lot of people don't know that .institute is a top-level domain? Should we go with armswiki.org becuase it's more self-explanatory? Should we rename the site to match? (The name wouldn't have to match--for example, splatoonwiki.org is called Inkipedia.) I also own armsinstitute.org, and armsinstitute.wiki, so those are options, too.

It would probably be good to decide on these questions soon, because the Testpunches and the release of the game itself are likely to increase interest in the game, and the more people we have visiting the wiki, the more confusion it would cause to rename it.

Feel free to express whatever thoughts you may have about NIWA or the wiki's name. I'm open to criticism, so don't worry about hurting my feelings. I should also mention that I don't think NIWA is actually insisting we change anything. We can discuss these issues here and/or in the new Discord channel that PleasePleasePepper created. Thanks, everybody! Gomtuu (talk) 19:07, 23 May 2017 (EDT)

European Site
I've noticed that some of the localized things of the European site differ from the Japanese one it's based off of. For example, "ARM Thickness" is now "ARM Girth", "Ribbon Label" is called "Ribbonics Records" and Min Min's weight is specified as "Unimportant" instead of "On a diet". Shouldn't we include these details on the pages as well, considering this is in fact from an official English site?

I would've tried comparing this with the American one as well, but that site doesn't even have character profile pages, as far as I can remember. Arend (talk) 15:58, 25 May 2017 (EDT)


 * Seems reasonable to me! Thanks for pointing this out. Gomtuu (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I'd say prioritize an official English website wherever possible. Nyargleblargle (talk) 19:18, 25 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I agree! And arms.nintendo.com has been updated now, too. It has all ten characters and all thirty ARMS, unlike the UK site. Gomtuu (talk) 12:48, 26 May 2017 (EDT)

I have no idea where to put this, but i think it is of importance
How to change colours:

While choosing a character, click and hold the left joystick down, while choosing a direction (up, down, right or left) with the joystick still held down in a clicked position, and then choose the character by clicking A. Each direction has its own colour!
 * Thanks for the info. Be sure to sign your talkpage messages, though! --XenonNSMB (talk) 11:55, 27 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I feel like this information can be placed best in the Costumes template, if there's a nice spot to put it in. Arend (talk) 17:14, 27 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I went ahead and added it. --XenonNSMB (talk) 17:59, 27 May 2017 (EDT)

Names in other languages
Hello I was wondering if there is a template for names in other languages? --Raltseye (talk) 13:20, 28 May 2017 (EDT)


 * Some pages have a Regional Differences section, but we don't have a template for it. Probably a good idea, though! Gomtuu (talk) 15:36, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I have moved all the names collected for ARMS Wiki to my user page. Are there any more to be found. --Raltseye (talk) 07:11, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
 * I created a suggested template in my user space with an example of how it will look on my user page. Can I main space it? --Raltseye (talk) 13:48, 4 June 2017 (EDT)
 * Sure! Thanks! Gomtuu (talk) 19:54, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

Wiki To-Do List
I went and made a wiki-wide to do list for people to add stuff they want done, or find something to do. Feel free to use it! XenonNSMB (talk) 17:44, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

Policies
I created a Policies page and added it to the sidebar. It's pretty basic right now. Please feel free to make suggestions! Gomtuu (talk) 16:13, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

Galleries?
Is there any particular reason why there aren't galleries? I'd like to add some of the additional artwork for characters but I don't want to add them if they're missing for a reason. If it is okay for me to add them, would it be better for characters to have gallery pages (like Spring Man/Gallery) or gallery sections? DatNuttyKid (talk) 21:45, 4 June 2017 (EDT)
 * Go ahead and make galleries where you think they're needed. We already have some for stages and a couple of ARMS, so I don't see why not. Nyargleblargle (talk) 21:48, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

Singular/Plural
When I created the Fighters, Stages, and Items pages, I used the plural forms as the titles. I've since realized that it's more common on wikis to create a page using the singular form, like "Fighter", that explains what a fighter is generally, and then link either to a page called "List of Fighters" or to the Category:Fighters page so visitors can see all the fighters and choose one. Do you think we should follow that convention? If so, should we do the same for the ARMS (extendable) and ARMS (equipment) pages, even though those words are usually plural because the name of the game (and the sport) is ARMS, not ARM? Gomtuu (talk) 23:34, 11 June 2017 (EDT)
 * I'd say move Fighters, Stages, and Items, but I've never seen ARMS used in singular form in official media, so keep those at their pages. Nyargleblargle (talk) 12:42, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
 * That sounds good to me. The ARM Getter mode is one case where they use the singular form, but the plural is still more common. Gomtuu (talk) 13:42, 12 June 2017 (EDT)

HotCat
Since we've been categorizing so many images lately to make things more organized, I say we install HotCat. It's a gadget used on Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons that gives you an autocomplete form for adding categories to an article, and makes it faster to do so by eliminating the need to submit a form. It's a MediaWiki gadget, so from what I know, we just have to copy the code from Wikimedia Commons into a gadget file on our wiki. We should install this, I think it would be useful. --XenonNSMB (talk, contribs) 08:47, 15 June 2017 (EDT)

Who's Online and Auto-Refresh for Special:RecentChanges?
Would it be possible to get a list of online users and an auto-refresh button for Special:RecentChanges? It'd be a big help for usage. DatNuttyKid (talk) 13:34, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

Beginning page introductions with "The"
In many cases, it seems like it would sound better to start an article with "The" or "A". For example, ARMS. "The Toaster is an ARM" sounds more natural than "Toaster is an ARM". This could also to apply to items or stages ("The Ramen Bowl" or "The Fire Bomb"). I personally believe we should change various articles to follow this format, and add it to our manual of style. Which of these changes do you agree with? Also how should we go about changing all of the pages? --PleasePleasePepper (talk) 23:35, 13 July 2017 (EDT)
 * I agree that this would be for the best unless they are referred to without articles in-game. DatNuttyKid (talk) 00:10, 14 July 2017 (EDT)
 * Here's how I think it should go, personally:
 * ARMS should have a "the" to start, as they're specific models of a general item (sort of like how you would start an article with "The Nintendo Switch", which is a specific type of video game console).
 * Items should be judged by a case-by-case basis as to what sounds most natural.
 * Stages should be left without an article IMO. You wouldn't say "The Buster Beach" even in normal conversation. Nyargleblargle (talk) 11:39, 14 July 2017 (EDT)
 * This seems alright. Although I wasn't really talking about all stages, it doesn't seem like as much as an issue to refer to them without articles. The only one that stands out is "Mausoleum" instead of "The Mausoleum". I definitely agree with your idea though. Any other thoughts? Also, how should we go about implementing this? --PleasePleasePepper (talk) 12:28, 14 July 2017 (EDT)
 * Mass editing might be too much trouble. I guess just edit the pages as we notice them. Nyargleblargle (talk) 15:33, 14 July 2017 (EDT)

Version history descriptions
Should we add a little description in Version history sections about how updates have affected a character's playstyle? Here's an example:
 * "Mechanica has been considerably buffed through updates, with adjustments generally centering around improving her air mobility."

Obviously this would be more sophisticated for things like the Revolver. Thoughts? Nyargleblargle (talk) 09:23, 14 September 2017 (EDT)
 * Sounds good, I support it. SmashWiki has descriptions of patches affecting a character's meta. Although, I can't think of an extreme buff or nerf that significantly affected how a fighter plays. Eventually by the last patch I think fighters wlll have different playstyles than at launch, though. --Meester Tweester (talk) 19:08, 14 September 2017 (EDT)